Recording Sessions

[beat Hit]

With that kind of flair for the groove, I'd say he was definitely gifted big time... That's NOT to say he was not working hard either... On the contrary, shall we say... Workaholic?

Quick question...

When playing Live (with TOTO for example), was Jeff always faithful to his own signature fills? Or was he rather known to change things on the spot?

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2004 09:56 AM: Message edited by: beat Hit ]</font>

[peter c]

Gosh, I can't say about Jeff.

On pop music, you are onto it, when
you talk about the form. Each section
has a character that you must be true
to - the groove to be laid out first,
with the kicks second.

Your first A usually is at a lower
dynamic level than your second and
then the B section should be distinct,
though still grooving. It may be a
slightly different feeling here and
you'll have to be sensitive but it's
not going to be far from you.

You last A will be at the highest
dynamic level, likely.

I play totally by ear and I have done
my share of sessions, mostly without
charts, though I do feel much better
having the form of the tune on my note
pad, if necessary.

It's about separating the parts of the
tune, giving each one of them identity
and revisiting these, when the music
calls for it.

That's my take.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 21, 2004 01:23 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[XNavyDrummer]

Pocket,

When given a ton of tunes to learn, it's usually in the form of audio recordings without charts. You could lock yourself in your practice room for weeks to memorize all that stuff...but who's got the time for that?

I picked up a shorthand method of transcribing drum charts where every bar is a forward slash. If there's a figure that needs to be nailed I'll write it between the appropriate slashes. Phrases are delineated with a double bar line. All verses are labeled at the beginning with a circled "V", choruses - a circle "C", and the bridge a "B". If there's a signature groove, I'll write it out long hand (a bar or two) at the bottom of the page.

I use this system with an old tape transciption machine with a range of speeds and a stop and reverse pedal. This has allowed me to crank out several charts a night. I keep a notebook of the charts in my trap case. It's really been helpfull, because I don't have the time to committ everything to memory and I really want to do a good job and nail the part.

Best,

Andy

[ladanny]

When Jeff played live, he stayed pretty true to the signature fills or small variations, but consistant.

A good example is with Africa. Live, he added some spice for the 3rd drum fill break. He didn't play the standard triplet "bla bla bla" fill down the toms. He added two sixes as 16th triplets starting on one, then did the "bla bla bla" tom fill.

Just a little wink for the drummers! That's so Jeff. But he did this consistantly live. So did Gregg Bissonette when he filled in for Simon. Gregg stayed VERY true to Jeff's parts, which is a bit more than can be said for Simon...

Danny

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 21, 2004 05:04 AM: Message edited by: ladanny ]</font>

[Randy walker]

Actually, Jeff could read but he played down his reading chops. Anton Fig does the samething but yet Anton can read.
Jeff would walk into a session and listen to a demo of the song and write out or it was already written a cheat sheet of the songs form. I have a video of Jeff on one his last sessions doing this and it gives great insight to how Jeff came up with parts and played for the song. Danny has seen this.

Jeff was also born with a huge amount of talent and a big set of ears which to be a studio rat is something you have to have, big ears. You need to have the instinct to hear where the tune is going, not everyone has this but you can train yourself to learn.
When I was at MI, a guy by the name of Charlie Fector(sp) taught ear training for music, not ear traiing for guitar which is a whole different subject, but similar.

[PocketPlayer]

I was getting info for someone on Jeff Porcaro and went over his sessions. Unreal! This guy lived in the studio between 1976-79.

My questions:
1. Was Jeff blessed with both a great hear and memory being he stated he didn't read well?
2. Some bands write songs for an album for over six months allowing the band drummer a long time to craft parts.
When Jeff walked into a session at 10AM and another by 2PM, how did he know the tune well enough to hit all the dynamics?
On his video, he discusses going through various pulses before settling on something that feels good. This was when he went through the Steely Dan session on "FM" He started playing a 16th note groove and than stuck with an 8th note groove accenting the dynamics.

Any ideas on nailing the structure of the classic AABA or ABBA format for pop tunes?

If you had to learn a variety of tunes, how would you go about it?

Lastly, what makes a great drummer in a cover band? Do you look for the signature fills all the time? LA Danny and I had a good time watching Steve Ferrone play "Runnin' On Empty" waiting for that classic fill...and he playing it differently on both sets. I couldn't believe he wouldn't play the fill the way Kunkle played it and we've heard on the radio a zillion times. Another was a guy playing Journey's "Seperate Ways" We all know what fill I'm referring to. And he didn't play it!!!

Gracias!

[beats]

Hey Andy:
Your charting method is EXACTLY the way i make my charts if i need to,coincidence or conspiricy!?

I dont play in a cover band,but if i did i would use said chart method,and id prob. download all the songs during that course of time and memorize them,since i like pop music because it makes me angry,if that makes sense.

If i was an Anton Fig situation id do the same thing.

If i was playing from the real book or more jazz standards id probably spend more time playing along to the original recordings and making charts,as most standards are easy to chart.

all my best...............beats

[XNavyDrummer]

Cool Beats...drummers will find a way to make it happen!

It really is a helpful way to transcribe all that stuff while keeping your sanity! It's especially helpful when the song writer is putting in those wonderfully counter-intuitive 7, 11, 13 and 21 bar phrases.

[PocketPlayer]

Thanks guys...obviously that Porcaro studio video would be awesome to view. I'm just really interested right now in the idea of developing musical ears. I will be the first to admit, my ears are developed for playing drums, but I think I need to grow substantially in playing musically. One reason I like Jeff so much is how he laid in the pocket with so much confidence. I use to tape myself playing to TOTO I and was amazed at how busy I was. There's a Christian recording Jeff did, Sandi Patti's Another Time, Another Place and several of the endings are very complicated, with many syncopated hits. Did he write all that stuff out? Did he read a chart? I know he read, and knowing Jeff from stories and through print, he would always down play his skills.

All that said, I'd love to hear more about sessions you guys have done--how you approached the music and got to know the "inside" of the song, or as Randy said, "ear training for music" leading to more musical playing.

As for pop drummers, who are your favorite musical drummers so to speak?

[peter c]

Steve is the pop king, in my book.

I'm sure that I can't hold a candle
to Randy and these other cats here
that have done a lot of studio work
but as the limited work I have done
was all by ear, I thought I'd share
again a little of my view.

I remember Steve downplaying reading
charts and emphasizing how important
it was to section out the tune, find-
ing the A's, the B's and C's and mak-
ing sure to "map" this out and with
the groove FIRST. Again, each section
has to be given identities that have
to be re-validated later on. Make
them distinct and clearly dependable
by the other members of the band,
solid in the groove first.

On grooving, you have to work at just
playing time and being content with it.
Drummers can be fickle. Sometimes, they
need to be doing something interesting.
Well, work on making that something
that is more simple, more interesting.
It can be done and it does not have to
be something terribly audible. Think
subtle thoughts.

Prepare your fills. Pop is formula. I
suggest applying formula. Make sure
your fills are with the pulse and
groove and you will be called back.

My little contribution...

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 21, 2004 10:08 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>